The NHS and the American right-wing
on Aug 12 in General by DanThe British National Health Service has it’s faults. In fact it has a lot of faults, many of which I could point out in very explicit job-loosingly detail. But I honestly believe that it’s very heart it is a wonderful ideal being executed by people positively trying to do a good job.
Well maybe not Harold Shipman and Beverly Allit. And perhaps not my colleague Rachel either. But otherwise it’s pretty genuine in it’s efforts to do the best with what it’s got.
Did you know the NHS is the third biggest employer in the world, behind the Chinese Army and the Indian Railroad. Well it is.
At the moment the American political right wing are making vicious attacks on the NHS in an attempt to stir up opposition Obama’s healthcare reforms.
You can read about it here.
Of course the right wingers fail to point out that the UK spends less per head on healthcare but has a higher life expectancy than the US. And the World Health Organisation ranks Britain’s healthcare as 18th in the world, while the US is in 37th place. But we wouldn’t like facts to get in the way of political ranting would we.
Bollocks to ‘em, that’s what I say.
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The best badly informed right wing rant I read suggested that Stephen Hawking would’t be alive today if he lived in the UK!
.-= Simon´s last blog ..The Alternative British Citizenship Test =-.
@Simon, I saw that. And also saw that they had removed the reference, which is a shame:)
@Dan, that one made me laugh too, especially when SH himself came out to defend the NHS.
.-= Clair´s last blog ..London Comedy =-.
Actually, I’m seriously impressed that the American right even knows the NHS exists. Let alone how to spell it.
More seriously, well-said! My US mother, who on most issues is slightly to the right of Rush Limbaugh, was a theatre nurse in the US for many years and the one thing she gives the UK credit for in comparison is the NHS.
I could go into serious rant mode here but perhaps I’ll save it for my own blog.
.-= dadwhowrites´s last blog ..Animusity [sic] =-.
@dadwhowrites, There are some things the US system does better than ours. but the thing is, it does them better as long as the patient can afford to pay for it.
What a numpty! But as he’s a far right-winger that shouldn’t come as too much of a surprise…
.-= Catherine´s last blog ..In the pipeline =-.
@Catherine, yes. Although a numpty that’s quite good at choosing his words so as not to make specific statements.
Hmm, the NHS while being far from perfect is infinitely better than the medical insurance system in the US where so many people do not qualify for decent healthcare.
I’m not surprised by the reactionary response to Obama’s attempts to transform their health system, not in a country that still thinks the word ‘socialism’ is a controversial and derogatory term.
.-= notSupermum´s last blog ..Happiness Is A Warm Greyhound =-.
@notSupermum, it amazes me the connotations socialism has over there. More than half my friends would probably classify themselves as socialists.
Oh go on, you can rant more than that. These people deserve the full force of both barrells of your virtual bluff Yorkshireman’s dry sarcastic verbal shotgun.
Failing that, bollocks to em I say.
.-= Steve´s last blog ..BBC NEWS | Health | Flu drugs ‘unhelpful’ in children =-.
@Steve, the problem with a full blown rant is I’d feel duty bound to actually research it so my facts were straight. And there is a Futurama repeat on TV
Quite frankly, Dan, I’m disappointed in you. I’ve heard more heartfelt and poignant rants from my three year old!
I’m not advocating one way or the other–simply because I don’t do it well and lending my voice usually becomes more detriment than help–but what drives me insane is the deliberate misinterpretation of information.
We HAVE a national healthcare system—people just fail to recognize it. How else can you explain why I’m charged $9 for a box of tissues or $7 for a tylenol? I’m paying for mine and the last 5 people treated who had no insurance.
It’s time to call bullshit on those who would deliberately skew fact to further an agenda. Give em’ hell, Dan. I know you’ve got it in you.
.-= Ed (zoesdad)´s last blog ..Break Time =-.
@Ed (zoesdad), I really don’t know enough about the US system to inform a proper rant. What I do know doesn’t impress me, but my sources of knowledge are far from neutral so I’m not in a place to go off on one.
But to me, free on the point of delivery to all seems infinitely more sensible and fair. There are big issues however with the NHS – everyone wants a perfect system but no one wants higher taxes. And resources have to be prioritized of course. But I’d rather resources were prioritized on need rather than on who can pay for them.
From what I know of the US system (and as I sa, my knowledge is limited) it really is not a good thing to be chronically ill and poor in the states.
On the one hand, I’d happily line the right wingers up against a wall…their nonsense is so dangerous. On the other hand, having seen how the NHS treated my father, there may be a grain of truth in the Edward Kennedy comment. And on the third hand, generally it is staffed by angels trying their best, and I’d rather not be without it.
.-= Nota Bene´s last blog ..Pick your own =-.
@Nota Bene, As I said, there are many flaws in the NHS. I don’t know what happened to your dad, but I’m sure it was disgraceful.
However, I do honestly believe the organization remains a benevolent institution.
As for the staff being angels however. I recommend you never visit our office lest your illusions be shattered.
Don’t get me f-ing started….
.-= JJ Daddy-O´s last blog ..What I was doing this past April…. =-.
@JJ Daddy-O, not even just a little?
What does John Q say?
.-= SingleParentDad´s last blog ..Four Years (and a week) on =-.
@SingleParentDad, isn’t it Joe the plumber?
our system was quite good..but it’s getting more hollow by the day. My mum works at a home-nurse and could rant a book full about it.
Which country is/was #1? I know a bunch of the Scandinavian countries pay for their healthcare by taxing on alcohol.
@Arjan, I’ve no idea who’s number 1. I doubt it’s Zimbabwe, but other than that I’m clueless.
Every system has it’s flaws, and ours is far from perfect. I just object to it being scorned by people advocating for an even worse system, that’s all.
@Arjan, I’ve had another thought on this.
Everyones system was better than it is now 10/20 years ago. this is because medical science has advanced so much, and new treatments have been discovered. this has lead to higher expectations. Which is good obviously, but the health service struggles to meet the resource demands of these higher services.
When the NHS was first created people would have been grateful that they got a gash in their head stiched up for free. Now they get pissed off if they have to wait for a highly complex heart operation costing tens of thousands of pounds.
I’m not saying they shouldn’t get upset. I’m just saying expectations have changed.
@Dan,
that is one part indeed.
But there is also the thing that for instance the bosses of home care walked away with tons of money while the people at the workfloor had to turn every cent around. They are just incapable of giving some patients the care they used to get, and that’s just talking about basic care.
But all in all I know our healthcare is still very very good but it’s hard to see the top guys take large sums of money for short time managing (maybe it’s stretched..but a bit like the bankers) while everyone down stretches their funds.
The bottom line for me is this, how much money you have in your pocket should not be the deciding factor as to whether you can receive the most basic of health care.
All these words and phrases being used, socialism, universal healthcare etc do nothing but stir up fear of certain aspects of society.
Take the Dutch medical system, essentially it is like the NHS, everyone can avail of it. The UK pay through taxes, the Dutch pay through mandatory and regulated insurance premiums. The system just works, and the standards are extremely high.
.-= Xbox4NappyRash´s last blog ..Books in her belly =-.
@Xbox4NappyRash, that sounds like a good system to me.
You’re right – the key factor should always be does low wealth restrict healthcare access. Becase if it does then something is rotten.
Well that got a lot of people commenting!
Can’t stand the US right wing and don’t like the US health system much either. But I guess you have to ask why the UK system is only 18th best when we are in the top ten world economies! My own experience is that people in NHS are brilliant and the aims aims / ethos is spot on but the underlying bureaucracy is a mess.
Interesting comment from Xboxnappyrash about the Dutch system. Not everything about UK system is great – try getting IVF treatment in the nineties for example; virtually impossible! That’s not prioritising on need, it’s a clear political decision on what should and should not be provided. Compulsory insurance systems suffer less from this problem – you get free at point of use, but you know exactly what you are entitled to and are less dependent on political interference. In theory the government could slash NHS budgets next year affecting millions and there’s nothing they could (directly) do about it.
Mark
.-= Mark´s last blog ..Run for home =-.
@Mark, the NHS budgets are being slashed.
Our particular branch has to make a 6% saving next year. 6% is a fuck load of money and we’re pretty stretched as it is.
I’m not saying more, as I want to keep my job and loose lips sink ships.
fox news is baiting these weak-minded lemmings on what to say and how to get reactions. i’m not too worried as the folks attending town hall meetings have little understanding of the all-mighty internet, or the fading relevance of town hall meetings. at one, this woman shouted, “don’t take away my medicare!” um, that happens to be a government-run system, so there’s something about this reform you’re not quite grasping.
dammit dan, you got me all worked up now…
jon stewart is covering this more eloquently (& humorously) than i can—
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-august-10-2009/healther-skelter
.-= bon bon´s last blog ..true blue =-.
@bon bon, @bon bon, The full quote is actually even nuttier than that:
“In other pockets of the state [South Carolina], the reaction to Democratic proposals has been strong, too. At a recent town-hall meeting in suburban Simpsonville, a man stood up and told Rep. Robert Inglis (R-S.C.) to “keep your government hands off my Medicare.”
“I had to politely explain that, ‘Actually, sir, your health care is being provided by the government,’ ” Inglis recalled. “But he wasn’t having any of it.” ”
(http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/27/AR2009072703066.html)
My neighbors to the east know how to bring the crazy.
@bon bon, deep breaths. deep breaths.
After surviving rather well on the NHS for the first 23 years of my life, I was absolutely flabbergasted at the health care system when I moved to the US. As a “for profit” business, the insurance companies obviously satisfy their share holders first and patients second. When you have accountants deciding whether people are or are not covered to have a medical procedure a Dr has decided is necessary, something is very very wrong.
I have health insurance and a hefty chunk of my paycheck goes towards paying for it. Except it doesn’t pay for everything and I still have to pay out of my own pocket. I had to go to the Dr last week. Before he would see me, I had to cough up my $20 “deductible”. My girlfriend got in a (luckily not serious) car accident a few months back. Took her to the hospital as she had some neck pain. Before we could leave the hospital though, we had to cough up $100 for the pleasure of visiting an ER.
.-= Kevin Spencer´s last blog ..Run Fatboy Run =-.
@Kevin Spencer, te whole US system baffles me. I don’t deny that at the top end it’s much more sophisticated and a higher quality than the NHS. Most of nursing research, for example, is led by the States.
But the social inequalities of it make my bleeding heart liberal head spin.
It is absolutely astounding how much misinformation is going around about the health care reform initiative over here. Everything from forced euthanasia to death panels. Some people are honestly convinced it’s gonna be like Logan’s Run.
.-= Holmes´s last blog ..The Hamster And The Bear =-.
@Holmes, Wow! A scantily-clad Jenny Agutter will be beamed into my living room? Excellent!
@JJ Daddy-O, Mmmmm Jenny Agutter.
In walkabout she’s nude you know. And if you pause American werewolf in London just right you can see her boobs and everything.
@Dan, Ahem, aren’t you getting a little off topic here?
.-= Barbara´s last blog ..Bits and Bobs =-.
@Holmes, I wonder if the death panels are taking applications. I can think of a few names just off the top of my head.
Did you see that A Modern Mother (who is American and currently in America ) and has experience of both systems just wrote a post on this? She comes out on the side of the NHS.
Me, I love it. Gave birth, used a lot of machines and drugs in the process, saw a lot of midwives AND nurses AND doctors and senior Doctors, stayed in hospital for 10 days, left and the only thing that it cost us was the stamp to send a card saying thanks for the care. At a time where we had a lot else on our plates, to not have to worry about paying for or sorting out insurance claims for the treatment was amazing.
.-= Brit in Bosnia´s last blog ..Holidays at home =-.
@Brit in Bosnia, the NHS has many faults, but you can’t beat the knowledge you don’t need to worry about how you will pay for your care.
I also find it funny that these people screaming about health care have no problem driving on government-funded roads, or calling the government-run fire department when they burn a bag of popcorn in their microwave, or taking their kids to a government-built park to play in the sandbox. Hypocrites, one and all.
My family has very good insurance, if we need it for a big procedure. It’s the small stuff that drains our wallets, as we have a family deductible that is over $1000 each year. My daughter stuck a bead up her nose when she was 4. $300 to have a doctor dig it out with a pair of tweezers (which took him about five minutes). $200 for me to get an x-ray when I thought I had pneumonia last year (I didn’t). $200 for my son to have his wrist checked at the ER when we thought it was broken (it wasn’t). $400 for my daughter to be “observed” when I thought she had eaten some muscle cream (I did most of the observing while in the ER).
I’m learning to NOT get the little things checked out because those little things have huge costs. I will probably die of something that could’ve been easily remedied at the start but for the high cost of the initial doctor visit.
My sister has no health insurance at all because her husband works for a small company that doesn’t provide it for spouses, and buying their own coverage would break the bank for them. Every day she wakes up hoping she doesn’t get sick.
@Idaho Dad, to an outsider many people in the US have a completely baffling attitude to government being involved in public affairs.
Surely they are more trustworthy, or at least accountable, than corporations?
@Dan, [pardon me while I go off on an all caps rant]
THAT’S WHAT SO FUCKING STUPID ABOUT THIS DEBATE! THE RIGHT’S ARGUMENT IS THAT THE GOVERNMENT WILL CONTROL YOUR HEALTH CARE (“GET BETWEEN THE PATIENT AND DOCTOR”) WHILE ONLY A COMPLETE EEJIT THINKS THAT WE DON’T HAVE THE INS COMPANIES TELLING THE DOCTORS AND PATIENTS WHAT TREATMENTS THEY CAN HAVE NOW!
Whew, Dan, are you allowed to prescribe?
.-= JJ Daddy-O´s last blog ..What I was doing this past April…. =-.
@JJ Daddy-O, You said eejit.
I want to buy you a beer.
.-= Xbox4NappyRash´s last blog ..Things to come =-.
I think we’re very lucky to have the system that we have. It’s not perfect but it achieves a lot for people who need it. It is being screwed up by beaurocrats and I think that is where the real issues are.
I really object to ill-informed extremists slagging it off. They’re obviously just jealous.
.-= Barbara´s last blog ..Bits and Bobs =-.
@Barbara, hee, hee, I think I heard a Republican congressman say the exact same thing about the US system on TV the other day
@JJ Daddy-O, Ah. Oops.
.-= Barbara´s last blog ..Bits and Bobs =-.
@Barbara, it’s the ill informedness of their attitudes that really bug me. If the debate centered around waiting lists I could understand it. But “death panels”!?
I just knew we were meant to be friends.
Being half British, I’ve always favored your system. But when I had to pay over $3000 to have my first child—on top of not having any paid leave, only unpaid, from work—yeah. Well. Health care absolutely informs my vote, possibly more than any other issue.
.-= Erin´s last blog ..Chicago Dog =-.
@Erin, that’s ridiculous! $3000. I was upset when we had to pay £5 for the scan photo.
I could write lots about the NHS.
I could write about how our two children only exist because of the excellent work the NHS did throughout their gestations.
I could write about what excellent work they did on me three years ago when a kidney stone wrought its terrible revenge on me.
I could write about the excellent care my good friend Chris recieved earlier this year from the NHS until his brain tumours claimed him.
But instead I will simply quote what a business partner of mine used to ask the private medical company’s when they rang touting for business, he had no kidneys, needed dialysis three times a week but before he revealed that to them he would ask Norwich Union, BUPA et al, how many paramedics and emergency response ambulances they employed/owned, when they begrudgingly admitted that “they didn’t do emergency response” his reply would be on the lines of “Then you’re fook-all use to me then”
Incidently Chris had BUPA cover for twenty years as part of his employment – the only time he was ill was during the ten weeks after his tumour discovery, his NHS surgeon was the same surgeon who would have treated him at the BUPA hospital, but that surgeon suggested that he stay at the NHS hospital as he’d receive more attention there, said surgeon only working at BUPA for two days a week.
.-= Gary´s last blog ..Video Saturday – Gamajobat =-.
Wait, I take it all back, you never told me how the NHS is a breeding ground for international terrorists…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2c-JEx-Kfvc
.-= Xbox4NappyRash´s last blog ..Things to come =-.
@Xbox4NappyRash,
Good isn’t it ?
The one with the bad haircut has clearly never actually studied how the NHS works, quoting the American method of small physicians practices operating as legal entities and small independant treatment centres whereas of course in the UK we don’t have GP surgeries that operate as legal entities and small independant treatment centres, oh no, we all just go to a muslim sponsored NHS city hospital when we have a sore throat.
I assume that Fox News operates as some sort of Cartoon Network franchise ?
.-= Gary´s last blog ..Illustration Friday – Wrapped =-.